Talking with a Canadian about Socialism, etc...

Here is part of a conversation I'm having with Nathan from Canada.  His questions are good and I hope to discuss more with him. 


Nathan

First of all Jon, I would like to thank you for responding to my comment. Second, I would like to state that I don't appreciate the fact that some of the people who don't agree with your politics are attacking you personally instead of fully explaining what it is they're getting at. I do respect you as a human being, and I admire your technical abilities as an artist. And I think its cool that you paint for what you believe in, I think more people should do that.
I'm not out to prove you wrong, but to provoke thought and dialogue. Its the only way you or I, a Conservative or a Liberal , can truly explore and validate our own convictions.


Jon

I appreciate the kind of debate you are offering.  This is why I am taking the time to respond to you, because you seem open-minded.

Nathan

To answer your first question, I don't think that people always literally use the name of capitalism in their conquest of land, resources, freedom, or commerce - but I do think that the type of Capitalism we see today does in fact provoke violent relationships, and maintain imbalances of power.

Jon

The kind of capitalism we see today is in fact evil.  It is called “crony capitalism.”  [Special interest groups making backroom deals to gain power in Washington.] This has led to much misery in the world.  I believe many wars and injustices are caused by such insidious villains; and this is not just Democrat or Republican. 

Nathan

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm suggesting that 'communism' is the answer. People often assume that you are either 'this,' or 'that,' when it comes to politics, but I would like for us all to get beyond that dichotomy.
I can understand your sentiment towards Privatization as the alternative to Government Control. I also believe in small government, and I don't think that the Government should have a hand in every aspect of our lives, (if any.) 

Jon

It sounds like you believe in free market and freedom, but at the same time want to open the door for Socialism? I believe capitalism is by pure definition-- freedom. Communism is about control. Socialism is between the two. The free exchange of goods without government intervention (capitalism) leads to not only the economic improvement of society but the development of mankind in general.  Without the self interest of the individual you can not motivate a society to improve her self.  This is not the kind of self interest that destroys others, but seeks to achieve one’s own ambition, sell at a profit and bring something of value to everyone. History is on the side of this.

Now, as for the cure…The difference between the kind of capitalism used throughout the world versus what we have in the US is the Constitution that I always talk about. America’s form of government was different than any other in world history.  Why do you think America has become so prosperous and successful in the past?  Our current prosperity is an illusion.  When you consider our staggering debts, this is not a model for greatness.  When our country began to stray from the original tenants of the Constitution, defined as limited, Republic form of government, we opened the door to corruption.  Originally the constitution was supposed to protect the citizens from any kind of abuse that may have occurred under capitalism by protecting the rights of the individual. Our current form of government is more Socialistic in that it focuses on the rights of the collective.  We have become a democratic socialized country. Now we have repeatedly amended it and blown so many holes through it as to allow sleazy politicians and special interest groups to get their way. We’ve introduced socialist programs that have sapped the life blood of our country (We could write pages on that too.) We now have multitudes of Socialists claiming, “See…capitalism doesn’t work!  Try our way.” There is indisputable evidence that most of the changes that have derailed our country were orchestrated by Communist and Socialist activists since the early twentieth century. The solution is to return to the limited government that worked so well.  Let the free market do its thing.  Let “We the People” do our thing and keep government out of the way, except where individual rights are being trampled.  Allow the states to make their own decisions not expressly defined in the Constitution.  You do that and NOTHING can compete against a capitalistic society. 

Nathan

But we do have healthcare here in Canada, and although its not perfect, (what is?) it does work fine.
I think that this ObamaCare thing is blown out of proportion. Someday, I would hope that healthcare would be a worldwide human right. The main problem with healthcare here, (besides wait-times which are a minor issue in the grand scope of things,) is that it drives up the taxes on products like Alcohol, and Cigarettes. But this makes sense to me. And Canada is just as Capitalist as the United States
I feel that there are larger issues to focus on. I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) I think that this could be the result of people propagating against Obama in general, because he is a Democrat, and the Government has been Republican for so long.


Jon

Canada has had their socialized healthcare since 1984.  The result is long wait times which can be life threatening.  A famous quote by a Canadian Dr. Brian Day, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=ad12dcee61e8b584&ex=1298782800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

I would read the following article why socialized healthcare is not a good idea. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

I don’t deny that our healthcare needs some fixing to help with cost reduction, but to hand it over to the federal government with its history of bungling bureaucratic agencies was shortsighted.

I also view this differently in how you call healthcare a “worldwide human right.”  I view “rights” as something that is unalienable and God given.  They are something you are born with—such as the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of property.  Not something that must be taken from one person to guarantee the comfort of another, which is what occurs under a socialized healthcare system.  Of course, society should consider the needs and healthcare of the needy.  This is called charity.  Our country would be in far better condition today without the welfare programs. http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n6-1.html

You said, “I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) “  I’m not sure what you’ve been watching, but the mainstream media is certainly in Obama’s court here in the US.  Bush was crucified by the media when he was in office.

The anger against Obama isn’t because he’s Democrat.  Conservatives are upset at the way he’s pushed through his agenda of Obamacare and used failed economic policies that have literally brought our country to its knees.

Talking with a Liberal Artist?

I had a pleasant conversation with a liberal art student…

Sarah
You must be the only painter who has this ultra conservative message behind your work. artists are known to be open-minded and against people who support money hungry, conservative, so-called "christians". you, sir, would be laughed out of my art school. i think it's time you "wake up".

 
Jon
Do you think I would care what "art school" thinks? This is a war of ideas and I do not agree with the liberal idealogy

Sarah

I would if i were you. if you call yourself an artist you should hope that students would look up to your art and the message you are conveying through your work. that's ok if you do not agree with liberal america, but your subject matter is full of lies and is against what modern day america stands for. painting our president in a false matter as if it were truth is wrong and fuels the fire of ignorance. art students question authority and want to shine a light on good causes and why we should fight against lies, ignorance, and hypocrisy.

Jon

Do you and your art student friends stand for modern day America? Do you believe conservatives stand for lies, ignorance and hypocrisy? If you go back just two generations you will find that the majority were the conservatives you are referring to. And you are telling me to wake up?

Sarah

Indeed, i am telling you to "wake up". the conservative movement is so against what this nation stands for: equal opportunity, equal rights, fair taxes, fair trial, and accepting those who differ in beliefs. america has come a long way since it was founded. i believe washington has become corrupt and is out for wealth and greed. washington has many politicians who are out to only benefit themselves and i find it atrocious. this movement does not support the better of man, woman and child but corporate greed and control over middle america. fox news feeds the public lies and is TOTALLY hypocritical. they fund the tea party movement and are a solely right-wing based media and corporation. why is it that they are the only network calling every other media the "liberal media"? is it because they spread more truth behind the stories they report? i stand for justice, equal rights, health care coverage for EVERY american, regulating corporations and raising taxes where they need to be raised so my family along with millions of others do not have to pay extra for millionaires and billionaires who have an unfair tax cut. mitt romney pays a lower tax rate than my parents and we can thank conservative republicans for that. i believe obama does care about the common good of the american people and we need that in the white house.

Jon

Sounds like Occupy Wall Street to me. There should only be equal rights for everyone. Never should people be allowed equality of things. You work for that. When the government gets in the business of spreading the wealth around you never have liberty because somebody has to have it taken from them in order to give to another. Such societies never survive because they lose the incentive to succeed. This is EXACTLY why Obama should not be in the White House. If Socialism is what you want, move to Greece.

Sarah

That's not socialism. i believe jesus taught spreading the wealth to the less fortunate would get the wealthy into heaven. ("the meek shall inherit the earth") equal rights does not constitute giving up material things but those who are being given an unfair tax break do not deserve to give the middle class their burden. obama stands for equality in the hospital and in the eyes of the law. that is what the people of the american nation want and believe in. having health care and an equal tax system is not equivalent to socialism.

Jon

Government run healthcare is not Socialism? Do you think we have an equal tax system? How much do you pay on your Income Tax? By the way, Jesus did teach us to give to the poor. I don't remember Him telling us to give it to the government so they could do it. Socialism is the fast track to Communism and that is evil. Why can't you see that? I may have to post this conversation on my blog so more people can see the insanity of this.

Sarah

What i pay in taxes is none of your business and i'm not asking you what you pay for taxes. having universal health care is a good idea for people who cannot afford health care and are not given the option through their job. our tax system is not equal and it is not fair. if people like the "1%" can pay a lower tax rate than those who make a small fraction of their income is un-christian because that does take away from the poor. the poor fund wars, they fight the wars, while the wealthy and well-connected have an unfair advantage. clearly you do not recognize the kind of socialism you preach against. the socialism you may be referring to that is evil in the soviet union, cuba or china.

Jon

No that's Communism. I'm talking Socialism. Democratic Socialism...which is where we are headed. Do you remember the Bolshevik revolutionaries that were lead under Lenin? They wanted everything you just stated. Didn't end pretty. You have lost your way in this country and forgot what it was that made America great. Greece got everything they wanted too, until the money ran out. By the way, I didn't expect you to tell me what you pay in taxes because I have a hunch you don't pay any.

Sarah

Right, because you clearly know me so well. i do pay for myself. i do my taxes on my own. i am a full-time student and i work hard at my job. i get good grades and i hope to be able to live off my artwork someday, too. i think you are mistaken for believing we are headed in that direction. this is the USA, the government is established enough where that would not happen if an individual in washington wanted it to, even if it were the president. we are long over due for universal health care, period and i cannot see how people are so against it. it would bring the cost of health insurance companies down to compete and it would ensure people can get help they need and not worry about how much a visit to the doctor will cost. have you forgotten about why we are in this mass debt to begin with? the last republican we had in office screwed us and now we are all paying for it.

Jon

Hmmm. Bush added 4 trillion in 8 years and Obama added 5 trillion in 3 and a half years. And I don't think you have studied the ramification of this Obamacare. It will increase our debt by another trillion dollars and everyone agrees it will lower the quality of healthcare. The majority of Americans did not want it and Obama pushed it through when he had control of the Senate. He never tried to push through a balanced budget when he had the chance. I'm glad you are working hard to find a career as an artist and that you pay income taxes. Do you pay 30% to the federal government? Why should some have to and others do not? You don't see us headed in the direction of Europe? Why not? We are doing what they did. Sarah, when you and your art buddies get together and talk about how great Obama is remember this: No party lasts forever and when the money runs out its over.

Is it "Subtelty" or "Satire?"

Someone asked me the following question on Facebook.  I wonder if they really wanted to hear the answer.

Michael Kelly

If you could honestly explain to me the "subtlety" of your work, I'd be intrigued. You call Stephen Colbert's piece on your work a smear campaign, but isn't that what your work is doing to Obama? Your argument is flawed because you are doing exactly what you believe others are doing to you. If you could explain to me why your work should be considered differently than political satire, I'd love to hear it.

Jon McNaughton

The difference is I am going after Obama for his policies that are unconstitutional and hurting the country. The left goes after me for simply speaking out through my art and don't address the issues of the painting. They take my words out of context and try to smear me personally. The subtlety lies in the content. Corbert never addressed the real meaning of the paintings he discussed and most all his audience thinks they understand, as I assume you do as well.

Corbert is a funny guy. but the paintings by themselves are not funny.  The only ones laughing are the liberals.  Satire is created for the sole perpose of finding humor in the serious.  The purpose of my art is to communicate.

Close your eyes if you wish, or do some investigating on my website.

Interesting Conversation

I had an interesting dialogue with someone offended by my paintings with Barack Obama.  Here is our conversation on Facebook:

Jeanne:

I feel so sorry for you. Living a bitter life, being a bitter man. Oh what a small mind you have.

Jon:

My love for God and my country makes me bitter and ignorant? Thank you for visiting.

Jeanne:

Your love for God should make you positive, you create bitterness in your work. God is all loving, all forgiving, and a gift of peace. God world is one of acceptance and love for everyone.

Jon:

Like when he condemned the Pharisees and overturned the moneychangers. Sometimes you have to pick a side instead of sitting on the fence and claiming "peace and love." Sure, we love others, but it doesn't mean we surrender to what is wrong. I saw your site...you believe in gay marriage. In your mind it is all about peace and love regardless of the consequences.

Jeanne:

Wars are never won, they just hurt people. Surrender-to what you think is wrong, why are you not marching in the streets, why do you contiue to support the closed mind. I am not on the fence, the forces of change will be. History is the past. What are you doing to change the furture. Painting for money.......now that is taking a stand indeed.

Jon:

Capitalism has blessed you with everything comfortable you enjoy. What am I doing to change the future? I'm doing everything I can to stop Socialism from infecting America. I'm not big on war, so your preaching to the choir. Although I will DEFEND our liberties till my dying breath, your philosophies are misguided and will only lead to tyranny.

Jeanne:

I work for my money, my children adults, both work in the service of others social worker, sheriffs dept. Nothing is fair and equal and never will be. Protecting health, the aging and children is not socialism, any more than giving money away to past presdients that don't need it but ask for it to maintain there style of living. If the congress and senate paid for there own health care etc. Would that be socialism, cause they sure are living it now

Jon:

You don't understand my paintings because you have not done any investigating. Your assumptions about me are completely off. Until more people in this country see the federal government as the problem instead of the cure, the worse our situation will become.

Jeanne:

Your painting, point the finger at one person whom is black. Your put everyone else in the background............It's like where's Waldo find the Bushes. All forms of art are important to the artist. How you allow the world to see them, often allows us not to see. Do you writre your senators, do you assit in local elections, do you hind and paint. Do you really care that goverment is over sized, or is it just that you profit because of it?

Jon:

Your questions are assumptive and wrong in each case. You imply racism because I painted Obama and he is black? You hint that I am motivated by money and make subtle sarcastic remarks. You are the very thing you claim to disdain. I engaged you in a conversation because I thought you would be rational. Good-bye.

What did John Adams mean: "We Are Not A Christian Nation?"

Woody Walker wrote the following on my Facebook:

“The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

Art. 11.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. George Washington First President !!!!”

My response:

Our issues at that time were with the pirates of the Barbary Coast and not the Muslim nations or Tripoli.  As Adams stated, it is true, we are not a theocracy, as many of the Muslim countries were at that time and if we had been they would have not wanted to make treaty with the US.  Because we signed this treaty does not mean that our country is not founded on Judeo-Christian values as evidenced throughout the symbology of our early currency, structures and symbols. And innumerable quotes of the early Founders. The citizens of the United States at that time were overwhelmingly Christian, so he obviously wasn't referring to that either.

To try to use these words of John Adams from a treaty with Tripoli as proof that our country is without Christian roots is a weak argument.   John Adams also said the following:

“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God. “ (Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)

My paintings do not promote that we are a theocracy or even a Christian government.  My paintings promote that our Constitution was divinely inspired.  I believe in the literal interpretation of the First Amendment--government should keep its nose out of religion.  (Not protect the people from being offended by religion.)  You can choose to accept or reject that as you wish.

Ron Paul or Mitt Romney?

I am a Constitutionalist, but I am also a realist.  I would prefer to eliminate the Federal Reserve, go back to the gold standard, and pull back the government bureaucracy, regulation, taxes and spending.  In fact, I would prefer a United States that existed prior to 1913 before Wilson set the wheels in motion to create the social democratic welfare state that exists today.  America has dug a hole so big it seems almost impossible to fix it.   But I believe it can be done.

Here is the wisdom:  it is not going to happen in a single election.  It is not going to happen this year or even the next.  It may take decades of elections, debate, and informing our fellow Americans to gradually sway the popular opinion of the majority—but it can be done.

This is more than a battle of Democrats versus Republicans.  It is a battle against an ideology of government, economics and social values.  It is defining what we want as Americans. Many people today focus on the acquirement of things, even if it means extending their credit limit. It is a “give it to me now” society that is reflected in both our people and government.  

So what is to be done?

In recent years there has been a push toward a constitutionally pure government.  The Tea Party conservatives and people like Ron Paul have created awareness among a growing number of Americans.  But I am afraid that there is a pervasive attitude among some of these fellow patriots that it is either all or nothing.  Some have said that a vote for Romney is no better than a vote for Obama.  Is that really true?  One it the fast track and the other the slow track to insolvency. (by not eliminating the Fed) But the country is not ready for a sudden reversal.  It will take time.  It took the left about one hundred years of patiently waiting to get where we are today.  Should we not be patient and careful as we try to save our country?  Why can’t we use faith and prayer and hard work, do our best to awaken the American spirit among our people? The polarizing effect of Obama will only strengthen this awareness as people begin to see the errors of Socialism.

If Mitt Romney were to be elected, (He's the most likely to get the GOP nomination.) he said he would take action to repeal Obamacare.  He would also loosen the federal government’s hold on small businesses and create an environment to help revive the economy.  These are big steps to reducing the size of government.  Realistically, Ron Paul does not yet have the support to win.  But when the country is ready, someone like Ron Paul will step forward and lead us back to true liberty.

Don’t lose hope!  We may not win the battle, but we can still win the war.

What is a True Christian?

In today's world, Christianity has become diverse with over 20,000 different Christian denominations; many of which profess completely different interpretations of the Bible. The Apostle Paul taught, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Ephesians 4:5) So here we are, many of us trying our best to come to Jesus and be saved. How are we to know what "truth" is and where to go to find it?

In the parable of the lost sheep, Jesus spoke of how the shepherd left the flock to find the one. Each of us is important to our Lord. If we will call out to Him, He will find us. We should not put our trust in man, but in our Father who is in Heaven. If we will do our best in this life to embrace what we believe to be true based on the words of the Master, I believe much of the misunderstandings on points of doctrine will be resolved in the world to come. God is merciful to those who love Him.

In my experience I have met with many groups of people as I have traveled. I have come to know the Catholics, the Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Evangelicals, the Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormons (this is my faith), the Mennonites, and many more. One common feature I have seen in every denomination that professes Christ is that there are truly good people who love Jesus and wish to emulate Him in there lives. But there are also those who are filled with hypocrisy and find fault in everyone else but themselves. I'm not mentioning this to point fingers...it is simply a fact of the world we live in.

Anyone can call themselves a Christian. But when has the acceptance of others ever been a prerequisite to entering the Lord's Kingdom? I believe the only thing that matters is how we stand in the Lord's eyes. In my painting, the suffering Jesus looks back as if to say, "What will you do? Will you stand as a witness of me?"

I believe God will judge us based on what is in our heart and our actions. It is true that we are saved by the grace of Jesus if we come to Him and repent. But to be numbered among the true Disciples of Christ we must truly love Him. "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15) And then He said, "Thou shalt love the Lord with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self." (Matt 19:37-39) As humans, we often fall short, but if we strive to be more like Him and express that love through our service to others, we will be good Christians.

There is one more element that I believe qualifies one as a "true Christian." I like the scripture, "perfect love casteth out fear." (1 John 4:18) As a Christian, we must not fear. Even if it means that we must stand alone. And after we have done all that we can do, we must continue to stand. "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22) A true Christian's love for Jesus Christ will motivate him to stand up for his beliefs, to love others unconditionally, and to be an advocate for truth and righteousness...regardless of the consequences. That we may find the strength do so is my reason for painting this picture.