Talking with a Canadian about Socialism, etc...

Here is part of a conversation I'm having with Nathan from Canada.  His questions are good and I hope to discuss more with him. 

First of all Jon, I would like to thank you for responding to my comment. Second, I would like to state that I don't appreciate the fact that some of the people who don't agree with your politics are attacking you personally instead of fully explaining what it is they're getting at. I do respect you as a human being, and I admire your technical abilities as an artist. And I think its cool that you paint for what you believe in, I think more people should do that.I'm not out to prove you wrong, but to provoke thought and dialogue. Its the only way you or I, a Conservative or a Liberal , can truly explore and validate our own convictions.

I appreciate the kind of debate you are offering.  This is why I am taking the time to respond to you, because you seem open-minded.

To answer your first question, I don't think that people always literally use the name of capitalism in their conquest of land, resources, freedom, or commerce - but I do think that the type of Capitalism we see today does in fact provoke violent relationships, and maintain imbalances of power.

The kind of capitalism we see today is in fact evil.  It is called “crony capitalism.”  [Special interest groups making backroom deals to gain power in Washington.] This has led to much misery in the world.  I believe many wars and injustices are caused by such insidious villains; and this is not just Democrat or Republican. 

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm suggesting that 'communism' is the answer. People often assume that you are either 'this,' or 'that,' when it comes to politics, but I would like for us all to get beyond that dichotomy.I can understand your sentiment towards Privatization as the alternative to Government Control. I also believe in small government, and I don't think that the Government should have a hand in every aspect of our lives, (if any.) 

It sounds like you believe in free market and freedom, but at the same time want to open the door for Socialism? I believe capitalism is by pure definition-- freedom. Communism is about control. Socialism is between the two. The free exchange of goods without government intervention (capitalism) leads to not only the economic improvement of society but the development of mankind in general.  Without the self interest of the individual you can not motivate a society to improve her self.  This is not the kind of self interest that destroys others, but seeks to achieve one’s own ambition, sell at a profit and bring something of value to everyone. History is on the side of this.

Now, as for the cure…The difference between the kind of capitalism used throughout the world versus what we have in the US is the Constitution that I always talk about. America’s form of government was different than any other in world history.  Why do you think America has become so prosperous and successful in the past?  Our current prosperity is an illusion.  When you consider our staggering debts, this is not a model for greatness.  When our country began to stray from the original tenants of the Constitution, defined as limited, Republic form of government, we opened the door to corruption.  Originally the constitution was supposed to protect the citizens from any kind of abuse that may have occurred under capitalism by protecting the rights of the individual. Our current form of government is more Socialistic in that it focuses on the rights of the collective.  We have become a democratic socialized country. Now we have repeatedly amended it and blown so many holes through it as to allow sleazy politicians and special interest groups to get their way. We’ve introduced socialist programs that have sapped the life blood of our country (We could write pages on that too.) We now have multitudes of Socialists claiming, “See…capitalism doesn’t work!  Try our way.” There is indisputable evidence that most of the changes that have derailed our country were orchestrated by Communist and Socialist activists since the early twentieth century. The solution is to return to the limited government that worked so well.  Let the free market do its thing.  Let “We the People” do our thing and keep government out of the way, except where individual rights are being trampled.  Allow the states to make their own decisions not expressly defined in the Constitution.  You do that and NOTHING can compete against a capitalistic society. 

But we do have healthcare here in Canada, and although its not perfect, (what is?) it does work fine.I think that this ObamaCare thing is blown out of proportion. Someday, I would hope that healthcare would be a worldwide human right. The main problem with healthcare here, (besides wait-times which are a minor issue in the grand scope of things,) is that it drives up the taxes on products like Alcohol, and Cigarettes. But this makes sense to me. And Canada is just as Capitalist as the United StatesI feel that there are larger issues to focus on. I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) I think that this could be the result of people propagating against Obama in general, because he is a Democrat, and the Government has been Republican for so long.

Canada has had their socialized healthcare since 1984.  The result is long wait times which can be life threatening.  A famous quote by a Canadian Dr. Brian Day, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=ad12dcee61e8b584&ex=1298782800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

I would read the following article why socialized healthcare is not a good idea. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

I don’t deny that our healthcare needs some fixing to help with cost reduction, but to hand it over to the federal government with its history of bungling bureaucratic agencies was shortsighted.

I also view this differently in how you call healthcare a “worldwide human right.”  I view “rights” as something that is unalienable and God given.  They are something you are born with—such as the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of property.  Not something that must be taken from one person to guarantee the comfort of another, which is what occurs under a socialized healthcare system.  Of course, society should consider the needs and healthcare of the needy.  This is called charity.  Our country would be in far better condition today without the welfare programs. http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n6-1.html
You said, “I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) “  I’m not sure what you’ve been watching, but the mainstream media is certainly in Obama’s court here in the US.  Bush was crucified by the media when he was in office.

The anger against Obama isn’t because he’s Democrat.  Conservatives are upset at the way he’s pushed through his agenda of Obamacare and used failed economic policies that have literally brought our country to its knees.


  1. dear jon, as an artist myself I appreciate your passionate feelings and belief coming through your paintings and now blogs. Picasso himself did the same, albeit he was communist, he still passionately painted against war as in Guernica. As for this conversation, it's not Capitalism itself that works, but Free Market without Government constraint or bail-outs. Smaller government without parties to me seems the best way we can go to restore this country back to the original Constitution. Hand in hand those will give the people back their power to make a way in life, untaxed by unscrupulous politicians who selfishly move in greed for more power and control. It's interesting that Nathan's final comment states that "Bush's war on Iraq being considered a illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world" when he totally neglected to see that the 9/11 attack was a huge SIN against humanity and a strike against our American freedoms. They (Islamic Extremists) won't stop here. Their plan is to rule the world with Sharia law. No freedom there for anyone, you become muslim or die. Obama is totally sympathetic towards Islam, while deceitfully stating he is Christian. Lying is approved and a mark of Islam that allows any means to gain control and the overturn of a people or country that is not Islamic. As you say it is not a fight between Democrat against Republican. Todays war is a fight for Unity, Freedom and going back to the TRUE beginnings our Forefathers founded this country on. If we lose this war the world is doomed. Keep painting, writing and may God keep you and give you all you need in life!

    1. I like you comment about how if we did away with parties and returned to a more simple Republic form of government would solve the problem. I always thought pure capitalism was the free market. Historically, its still the best we have.

    2. @Jon

      Under this "free market" in the nineteenth century we got a 23 year depression.


      Even worse from 1880 to 1896, that's 16 years, our economy didn't grow at all. Unemployment hit 14% in 1876 dropped for a short recovery then went back up to 7.5% (13% in the north east where most Americans lived) This was under the gold standard and with no government intervention complete free markets.

      Hardly a bed of roses.

  2. While I agree that the depression was no bed of roses, I am not sure where you read that it was "complete free markets" and no government intervention that gave us the depression. It was a worldwide economic recession. Taking away silver was another cause, by government.

    QUOTE: "Because of the Panic of 1873, governments depegged their currencies, to save money. The demonetization of silver by European and North American governments in the early 1870s was certainly a contributing factor."

    So who is really responsible? Not republican or democrat, but greedy people in government with no moral fiber or integrity or service to the people. Get politicians together with a lack of personal integrity and greed for power and money, then call it government with handouts to control the populace and take away the peoples drive to work freely and you then have socialism. We become dependent on governmental caregiving, rather than being caretakers over our own lives.

    Here's another quote from the wiki article: "In America the speculative nature of financing due to both the greenback which was paper currency issued to pay for the US Civil War and rampant fraud in the building of the Union Pacific Railway up to 1869 culminated in the Credit Mobilier panic." Sounds exactly what is happening now if you ask me....Paper money being printed like rolled out like toilet paper, and wars even though our President promised not to get involved that way. BTW: Why are we in Afghanistan if the is no war on terror?

    Corruption is always the cause, and greed follows right after to cause any system to fail. Not free markets. Unity works not division of parties. Despite differences all peoples are protected under the constitution for rights which they unwittingly fight for today without reason.

    Every hear of the Bilderberg Group or the Illuminati ? Google those words for insightful information on corrupted people who want to rule the world...