McNaughton and Troy talk about Obama and Socialism

Troy has been wanting to debate the content of my paintings and my assertions regarding Socialism for a long time.  I have agreed to discuss it with him on my Blog.  It's difficult to simply throw out one sentence antidotes to heavy questions, therefore I have done my best to explain my positions.  I don't expect us to convert each other, but it makes for a good mind bender.

Okay Jon, where are the details? What Obama policies are unconstitutional? Which policies are hurting the country? And why? I've done some investigating on your website and can't find the details. I've asked these questions here and received no answers.

Here is my response:

I believe that Obama has committed many unconstitutional acts since becoming President.  He is certainly not the first president to do this, but we will focus our attention here on President Obama.

On my website, under “What Has Obama Done” (1) I have only listed a few of his unconstitutional acts as president.  I will attempt here to explain myself further:

Before Marbury v. Madison in 1803, the Supreme Court could not mandate law and could only take a position on whether laws and actions were deemed constitutional.  Now, unless a lawsuit is brought to the court and they feel it is worthy of their time, the court rarely makes judgments on the unconstitutional acts of Congress or the President. (2) To assume anything is constitutional just because the high court has not ruled against it is na├»ve.

Fortunately, the Supreme Court took the case of 28 states that have filed lawsuits against Obamacare for its individual mandate.  This is unprecedented in the history of our country. They are proving that the mandate is not a tax and it is in fact a “penalty” for not complying.  (3)This is the most egregious of his acts as president.  Forcing our citizens to purchase a product with penalty of noncompliance is a blatant disregard for the Constitution. Not only was Obamacare not approved by the majority of Americans and pushed through the Senate, it was also not given enough time to properly read what was in it before passing.  (4) It has created an environment of fear, which has prevented many businesses from hiring additional employees and many have concluded that it has extended the recession. (5) Also, there is plenty of evidence that it will reduce the quality and accessibility of healthcare (15) in the long run and lead to a trillion dollars in additional national debt.  It is Obama’s greatest “achievement” toward leading us down the road to Socialism.  To suspect that a new bureaucracy within the US government will be efficiently managed is a fantasy.  Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and numerous government programs are the continuous example of poorly managed federal government. (6)

Also, the evidence is mounting that Obama was in fact born in Kenya. In my original list I did not include this because the evidence was circumstantial at best.  But things have changed.  (7) If this is resolutely confirmed, it will be one of the greatest lies ever perpetrated upon the American people.  Whether it is considered important or not, it is a direct prerequisite of our Constitution, that he be a naturally born citizen.   People have tried to ridicule this notion since day one, but Obama has done nothing to resolve this until last year when he released the long form of his BC.  Since then, it has been proven to be a forgery and there has been additional evidence, which has shown there is reason to doubt its authenticity. (8)

We also have the appointment of various “Czars”, which have great power in his administration without any congressional oversight.  That is brow raising in itself, but many of his chosen appointees have Communist sympathies and radical ideologies.  (9)

Obama attacked Libya without consulting Congress to declare war.  We were not being attacked by Libya and it was an unprovoked act of aggression.  (10)

Buying GM was out of bounds.  When government decides who the winners and losers are without regards to a company’s bondholders you have crossed the line.  If GM has been allowed to go through bankruptcy court it would have been bought up by other car companies, rehired many of the workers and come out a better company. (11)

Signing the NDAA.  I was concerned when Romney stated he would have signed it as well.  All though it was necessary to pass a military budget, the disregard for the Fourth Amendment is stunning.  Where is the Supreme Court on this one? (12)

Everything about big government spending is unconstitutional because in goes outside the bounds of limited government. (13) I could go on, but for sake of time I’ll stop here. (14)

After you respond, I will move to the next topic:  The pros or cons of Socialism. 


Talking with a Canadian about Socialism, etc...

Here is part of a conversation I'm having with Nathan from Canada.  His questions are good and I hope to discuss more with him. 

First of all Jon, I would like to thank you for responding to my comment. Second, I would like to state that I don't appreciate the fact that some of the people who don't agree with your politics are attacking you personally instead of fully explaining what it is they're getting at. I do respect you as a human being, and I admire your technical abilities as an artist. And I think its cool that you paint for what you believe in, I think more people should do that.I'm not out to prove you wrong, but to provoke thought and dialogue. Its the only way you or I, a Conservative or a Liberal , can truly explore and validate our own convictions.

I appreciate the kind of debate you are offering.  This is why I am taking the time to respond to you, because you seem open-minded.

To answer your first question, I don't think that people always literally use the name of capitalism in their conquest of land, resources, freedom, or commerce - but I do think that the type of Capitalism we see today does in fact provoke violent relationships, and maintain imbalances of power.

The kind of capitalism we see today is in fact evil.  It is called “crony capitalism.”  [Special interest groups making backroom deals to gain power in Washington.] This has led to much misery in the world.  I believe many wars and injustices are caused by such insidious villains; and this is not just Democrat or Republican. 

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm suggesting that 'communism' is the answer. People often assume that you are either 'this,' or 'that,' when it comes to politics, but I would like for us all to get beyond that dichotomy.I can understand your sentiment towards Privatization as the alternative to Government Control. I also believe in small government, and I don't think that the Government should have a hand in every aspect of our lives, (if any.) 

It sounds like you believe in free market and freedom, but at the same time want to open the door for Socialism? I believe capitalism is by pure definition-- freedom. Communism is about control. Socialism is between the two. The free exchange of goods without government intervention (capitalism) leads to not only the economic improvement of society but the development of mankind in general.  Without the self interest of the individual you can not motivate a society to improve her self.  This is not the kind of self interest that destroys others, but seeks to achieve one’s own ambition, sell at a profit and bring something of value to everyone. History is on the side of this.

Now, as for the cure…The difference between the kind of capitalism used throughout the world versus what we have in the US is the Constitution that I always talk about. America’s form of government was different than any other in world history.  Why do you think America has become so prosperous and successful in the past?  Our current prosperity is an illusion.  When you consider our staggering debts, this is not a model for greatness.  When our country began to stray from the original tenants of the Constitution, defined as limited, Republic form of government, we opened the door to corruption.  Originally the constitution was supposed to protect the citizens from any kind of abuse that may have occurred under capitalism by protecting the rights of the individual. Our current form of government is more Socialistic in that it focuses on the rights of the collective.  We have become a democratic socialized country. Now we have repeatedly amended it and blown so many holes through it as to allow sleazy politicians and special interest groups to get their way. We’ve introduced socialist programs that have sapped the life blood of our country (We could write pages on that too.) We now have multitudes of Socialists claiming, “See…capitalism doesn’t work!  Try our way.” There is indisputable evidence that most of the changes that have derailed our country were orchestrated by Communist and Socialist activists since the early twentieth century. The solution is to return to the limited government that worked so well.  Let the free market do its thing.  Let “We the People” do our thing and keep government out of the way, except where individual rights are being trampled.  Allow the states to make their own decisions not expressly defined in the Constitution.  You do that and NOTHING can compete against a capitalistic society. 

But we do have healthcare here in Canada, and although its not perfect, (what is?) it does work fine.I think that this ObamaCare thing is blown out of proportion. Someday, I would hope that healthcare would be a worldwide human right. The main problem with healthcare here, (besides wait-times which are a minor issue in the grand scope of things,) is that it drives up the taxes on products like Alcohol, and Cigarettes. But this makes sense to me. And Canada is just as Capitalist as the United StatesI feel that there are larger issues to focus on. I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) I think that this could be the result of people propagating against Obama in general, because he is a Democrat, and the Government has been Republican for so long.

Canada has had their socialized healthcare since 1984.  The result is long wait times which can be life threatening.  A famous quote by a Canadian Dr. Brian Day, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=ad12dcee61e8b584&ex=1298782800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

I would read the following article why socialized healthcare is not a good idea. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

I don’t deny that our healthcare needs some fixing to help with cost reduction, but to hand it over to the federal government with its history of bungling bureaucratic agencies was shortsighted.

I also view this differently in how you call healthcare a “worldwide human right.”  I view “rights” as something that is unalienable and God given.  They are something you are born with—such as the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of property.  Not something that must be taken from one person to guarantee the comfort of another, which is what occurs under a socialized healthcare system.  Of course, society should consider the needs and healthcare of the needy.  This is called charity.  Our country would be in far better condition today without the welfare programs. http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n6-1.html
You said, “I see more people slamming Obama in the so-called liberal media for ObamaCare then I did for Bush's War on Iraq, (that was considered an illegal/criminal action by the rest of the world.) “  I’m not sure what you’ve been watching, but the mainstream media is certainly in Obama’s court here in the US.  Bush was crucified by the media when he was in office.

The anger against Obama isn’t because he’s Democrat.  Conservatives are upset at the way he’s pushed through his agenda of Obamacare and used failed economic policies that have literally brought our country to its knees.


Talking with a Liberal Artist?

I had a pleasant conversation with a liberal art student…

You must be the only painter who has this ultra conservative message behind your work. artists are known to be open-minded and against people who support money hungry, conservative, so-called "christians". you, sir, would be laughed out of my art school. i think it's time you "wake up".


Do you think I would care what "art school" thinks? This is a war of ideas and I do not agree with the liberal idealogy

I would if i were you. if you call yourself an artist you should hope that students would look up to your art and the message you are conveying through your work. that's ok if you do not agree with liberal america, but your subject matter is full of lies and is against what modern day america stands for. painting our president in a false matter as if it were truth is wrong and fuels the fire of ignorance. art students question authority and want to shine a light on good causes and why we should fight against lies, ignorance, and hypocrisy.

Do you and your art student friends stand for modern day America? Do you believe conservatives stand for lies, ignorance and hypocrisy? If you go back just two generations you will find that the majority were the conservatives you are referring to. And you are telling me to wake up?

Indeed, i am telling you to "wake up". the conservative movement is so against what this nation stands for: equal opportunity, equal rights, fair taxes, fair trial, and accepting those who differ in beliefs. america has come a long way since it was founded. i believe washington has become corrupt and is out for wealth and greed. washington has many politicians who are out to only benefit themselves and i find it atrocious. this movement does not support the better of man, woman and child but corporate greed and control over middle america. fox news feeds the public lies and is TOTALLY hypocritical. they fund the tea party movement and are a solely right-wing based media and corporation. why is it that they are the only network calling every other media the "liberal media"? is it because they spread more truth behind the stories they report? i stand for justice, equal rights, health care coverage for EVERY american, regulating corporations and raising taxes where they need to be raised so my family along with millions of others do not have to pay extra for millionaires and billionaires who have an unfair tax cut. mitt romney pays a lower tax rate than my parents and we can thank conservative republicans for that. i believe obama does care about the common good of the american people and we need that in the white house.

Sounds like Occupy Wall Street to me. There should only be equal rights for everyone. Never should people be allowed equality of things. You work for that. When the government gets in the business of spreading the wealth around you never have liberty because somebody has to have it taken from them in order to give to another. Such societies never survive because they lose the incentive to succeed. This is EXACTLY why Obama should not be in the White House. If Socialism is what you want, move to Greece.

That's not socialism. i believe jesus taught spreading the wealth to the less fortunate would get the wealthy into heaven. ("the meek shall inherit the earth") equal rights does not constitute giving up material things but those who are being given an unfair tax break do not deserve to give the middle class their burden. obama stands for equality in the hospital and in the eyes of the law. that is what the people of the american nation want and believe in. having health care and an equal tax system is not equivalent to socialism.

Government run healthcare is not Socialism? Do you think we have an equal tax system? How much do you pay on your Income Tax? By the way, Jesus did teach us to give to the poor. I don't remember Him telling us to give it to the government so they could do it. Socialism is the fast track to Communism and that is evil. Why can't you see that? I may have to post this conversation on my blog so more people can see the insanity of this.

What i pay in taxes is none of your business and i'm not asking you what you pay for taxes. having universal health care is a good idea for people who cannot afford health care and are not given the option through their job. our tax system is not equal and it is not fair. if people like the "1%" can pay a lower tax rate than those who make a small fraction of their income is un-christian because that does take away from the poor. the poor fund wars, they fight the wars, while the wealthy and well-connected have an unfair advantage. clearly you do not recognize the kind of socialism you preach against. the socialism you may be referring to that is evil in the soviet union, cuba or china.

No that's Communism. I'm talking Socialism. Democratic Socialism...which is where we are headed. Do you remember the Bolshevik revolutionaries that were lead under Lenin? They wanted everything you just stated. Didn't end pretty. You have lost your way in this country and forgot what it was that made America great. Greece got everything they wanted too, until the money ran out. By the way, I didn't expect you to tell me what you pay in taxes because I have a hunch you don't pay any.

Right, because you clearly know me so well. i do pay for myself. i do my taxes on my own. i am a full-time student and i work hard at my job. i get good grades and i hope to be able to live off my artwork someday, too. i think you are mistaken for believing we are headed in that direction. this is the USA, the government is established enough where that would not happen if an individual in washington wanted it to, even if it were the president. we are long over due for universal health care, period and i cannot see how people are so against it. it would bring the cost of health insurance companies down to compete and it would ensure people can get help they need and not worry about how much a visit to the doctor will cost. have you forgotten about why we are in this mass debt to begin with? the last republican we had in office screwed us and now we are all paying for it.

Hmmm. Bush added 4 trillion in 8 years and Obama added 5 trillion in 3 and a half years. And I don't think you have studied the ramification of this Obamacare. It will increase our debt by another trillion dollars and everyone agrees it will lower the quality of healthcare. The majority of Americans did not want it and Obama pushed it through when he had control of the Senate. He never tried to push through a balanced budget when he had the chance. I'm glad you are working hard to find a career as an artist and that you pay income taxes. Do you pay 30% to the federal government? Why should some have to and others do not? You don't see us headed in the direction of Europe? Why not? We are doing what they did. Sarah, when you and your art buddies get together and talk about how great Obama is remember this: No party lasts forever and when the money runs out its over.


Is it "Subtelty" or "Satire?"

Someone asked me the following question on Facebook.  I wonder if they really wanted to hear the answer.

Michael Kelly

If you could honestly explain to me the "subtlety" of your work, I'd be intrigued. You call Stephen Colbert's piece on your work a smear campaign, but isn't that what your work is doing to Obama? Your argument is flawed because you are doing exactly what you believe others are doing to you. If you could explain to me why your work should be considered differently than political satire, I'd love to hear it.

Jon McNaughton

The difference is I am going after Obama for his policies that are unconstitutional and hurting the country. The left goes after me for simply speaking out through my art and don't address the issues of the painting. They take my words out of context and try to smear me personally. The subtlety lies in the content. Corbert never addressed the real meaning of the paintings he discussed and most all his audience thinks they understand, as I assume you do as well.

Corbert is a funny guy. but the paintings by themselves are not funny.  The only ones laughing are the liberals.  Satire is created for the sole perpose of finding humor in the serious.  The purpose of my art is to communicate.

Close your eyes if you wish, or do some investigating on my website.


Interesting Conversation

I had an interesting dialogue with someone offended by my paintings with Barack Obama.  Here is our conversation on Facebook:

I feel so sorry for you. Living a bitter life, being a bitter man. Oh what a small mind you have.

My love for God and my country makes me bitter and ignorant? Thank you for visiting.

Your love for God should make you positive, you create bitterness in your work. God is all loving, all forgiving, and a gift of peace. God world is one of acceptance and love for everyone.

Like when he condemned the Pharisees and overturned the moneychangers. Sometimes you have to pick a side instead of sitting on the fence and claiming "peace and love." Sure, we love others, but it doesn't mean we surrender to what is wrong. I saw your site...you believe in gay marriage. In your mind it is all about peace and love regardless of the consequences.

Wars are never won, they just hurt people. Surrender-to what you think is wrong, why are you not marching in the streets, why do you contiue to support the closed mind. I am not on the fence, the forces of change will be. History is the past. What are you doing to change the furture. Painting for money.......now that is taking a stand indeed.

Capitalism has blessed you with everything comfortable you enjoy. What am I doing to change the future? I'm doing everything I can to stop Socialism from infecting America. I'm not big on war, so your preaching to the choir. Although I will DEFEND our liberties till my dying breath, your philosophies are misguided and will only lead to tyranny.

I work for my money, my children adults, both work in the service of others social worker, sheriffs dept. Nothing is fair and equal and never will be. Protecting health, the aging and children is not socialism, any more than giving money away to past presdients that don't need it but ask for it to maintain there style of living. If the congress and senate paid for there own health care etc. Would that be socialism, cause they sure are living it now

You don't understand my paintings because you have not done any investigating. Your assumptions about me are completely off. Until more people in this country see the federal government as the problem instead of the cure, the worse our situation will become.

Your painting, point the finger at one person whom is black. Your put everyone else in the background............It's like where's Waldo find the Bushes. All forms of art are important to the artist. How you allow the world to see them, often allows us not to see. Do you writre your senators, do you assit in local elections, do you hind and paint. Do you really care that goverment is over sized, or is it just that you profit because of it?

Your questions are assumptive and wrong in each case. You imply racism because I painted Obama and he is black? You hint that I am motivated by money and make subtle sarcastic remarks. You are the very thing you claim to disdain. I engaged you in a conversation because I thought you would be rational. Good-bye.