7.26.2012

God Should be a Socialist?

Another interesting conversation between me and the "Fear Tactic Atheist":

Stephen

Lets say, HYPOTHETICALLY (i am very tired of you guys going OMG HE SAID JESUS AS A FEAR TACTIC, CLEARLY HE FEARS JESUS), that God does exist, he would be a far far worst creature than the Devil ever could be, hey hes the o...ne who allows the devil to exist. The Greek philosopher Epicurus put it best "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" logically you have to accept one of these out comes otherwise your just being illogical

Jon

Stephen, Epicurus knows nothing about the nature of God.  Why does God allow there to be evil in the world?  Why doesn't He just force all of us to be good and righteous to each other?  Why doesn't He just give us all a happy, plentiful, joyous life with no sorrow or grief?  If God exists, aren't we all entitled to a life of bounty?  Hmm, I wonder why God is NOT a Socialist?  The same God who gives us life and the air we breathe blesses us with enough to make the world a wonderful place.  Why do we have to struggle?  Because we grow and develop and show Him and ourselves what we are capable of doing.  As we follow true principles we prosper and we raise the quality of humankind, as we sin we fail.  Our life does not end at death...that's when the real life begins.  Yes Stephen, there is a war between good and evil.  You’re on the wrong side brother.


10 comments:

  1. Love your comments. I have made the presumption that my family is like our heavenly family. If I try to force my kids to work and be happy, they rebel against me, despite my good intentions. It isn't until I give them freedom to choose and suffer the consequences of their mistakes, that I see them weigh the pain and misery against the "difficulty" of being good. Now feeling the pain they brought upon themselves and others is what convinces them wholeheartedly of that which really brings lasting happiness. Some, choose to obey once they learn. Others refuse to obey unless they are supervised. You see, tyranny & socialism both sow the seeds of rebellion in the people because they aren't free.
    I believe we all had the opportunity to come here to earth. We were told that we would disobey, because we lived with Him for some time and He came to know our hearts. It pained Him. But, WE wanted it; to prove that we could be like Him, not just when in His presence, but when we didn't know for sure that He was watching. We wanted to EARN a glorified life. We begged for an opportunity to prove our true natures to Him and remained optimistic we could return honorably under this plan He proposed. Satan, and those who followed, him tried to use compulsion. Maybe they weren't so sure they would pass the test, knowing the enmity in their own hearts. But, God knew it would not result in eternal progress, but instead it would produce stagnation and zero eternal growth.
    The ideas of socialism are grand, it's just the application that is evil. I don't mind the gov't taxing EVERYONE at the same rate for roads, courts, nat. defense, patent protections, law enforcement, etc...things that benefit and protect the rights of all people EQUALLY. Then, if the gov't wants to do more, they may request donations. We could encourage each other to performs acts of charity ourselves or to donate to organizations, including the gov't, that perform the service that we agree with and desire to support. Therein lies liberty! No seeds of rebellion sown! All men free to act and responsible to God one day for their stewardship. Oh, that more politicians and voters understood these principles of Liberty and Tyranny and their scriptural roots!

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  2. There's also man's power of will (or "choice"). The best example is in the garden of Eden: Adam and Eve had a choice to eat or not to eat (to sin or not to sin). God gave them fair instruction, and that was the only limitation he ever gave them or they ever needed, because they were sinless. Still they CHOSE to do wrong, and THEY opened the door to evil. God didn't want that, but he had given the choice to them to make.

    Without a choice to obey or disobey, we wouldn't have the capacity to show love. And God doesn't want a bunch of robots; He wants a people that CHOOSE to follow Him.

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  3. Very insightful comments. You guys understand more than most people. Spiritual understanding is both a gift and a blessing.

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  4. God wants us to come to Him willingly so that He knows we love Him. If He were to force Himsself on us, that is not love. He loves us all regardless but He wants us to love Him back. I believe this is why we have free will. It's so simple and so easy to understand. Compare it to your own children. It doesn't matter what they do. You love them. When they are done bashing their heads against a brick wall they are likely to return to you and love you back. Would you reject them?

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  5. You just completely ignored his argument and instead deflected by rambling about the "mysteries of god." You then proceed to connect the discussion to socialism for no apparent reason other than to advance your own clear political bias. Also, you are being incredibly arrogant by quickly dismissing Epicurus' philosophical proposition and acting like you some how know better than him. There may be a war between good and evil, but I'm more concerned with the war between reason and ignorance. And let me tell you something, you're on the wrong side friend.

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  6. Actually it seems as if God would prefer to have us live in socialism, or at least in a system closer to socialism than capitalism. The early Christians owned everything in common; "distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." (Acts 4:35) The same system was practiced by the Nephites after Christ appeared to them (4th Nephi), by the City of Enoch - "there was no poor among them" (Moses 7:18), and by the early Latter Day Saints - the United Order. Redistribution of wealth is a central tenant of these Zion societies. In fact, it is when the Nephites abandon common ownership and divide into classes of rich and poor that the utopia ends and they descend into wickedness. (4th Nephi 1:25-27.) I know you will argue that this form of socialism is very different because they were not compelled by their government to practice it. But your blanket statement that "God is not a socialist" is contradicted by these examples. He could have easily told Peter, Enoch, Nephi, and Joseph Smith to maximize profits and lower taxes on the wealthy, but if He did, it isn't recorded.

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    1. You are on the right side Lincoln!!!

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  7. After the theater massacare in CO, I heard an atheist (on tv) say that if anything made her want to believe in God, it was that kind of evil... She said if there was such utter darkness she felt its polar opposite surely must also exist.

    I pray she has found Him.

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  8. Lincoln,

    I believe all of your examples are correct, but you are missing a huge part of those societies that practice the higher order..........they freely gave one to another.....it was not taken from them. Socialism takes from each of us and gives to those who do not give. Socialism creates lazy, idle people who wallow in entitlements and never have the initiative to better themselves. Socialism kills initiative and hope, by taking from those who have the initiative and work ethic to get things done and to grow and expand and gives to those who are lazy and who have no drive to create or work. It is a blanket statement to say that all those who are needy are lazy....that is not true, but the majority of welfare recipients are lazy.....especially when their parents and their parents, parents were on welfare...... It creates an environment and mentality of entitlement which kills Capitalism and a free enterprise system. Study all governments who have chosen the Socialist form of government and they fell every time to create a Utopian society.

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